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Andrews Prevents a "Civil War"

by: huntsu

Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:58:30 AM EDT



This explanation from Rob Andrews as to why his wife is on the ballot to be the Democratic nominee but won't commit to running is pretty damning.

Essentially he is saying that instead of having an open primary (which he sued for in other counties) in NJ1 and allow anyone with an interest in running go before the voters and make their case, he and the party bosses arranged to bypass the voters and give 600 people the final say on who succeeds him.

There are currently 156,789 Democrats registered to vote in NJ1, and another few hundred thousand undeclared voters who can declare as Democrats on primary day.  But Andrews thinks that it would be akin to a "civil war" to allow them to vote for their preferred candidate.  No, it should be decided by .03 percent (not three percent, point oh three percent) of the Democrats in the district.

The people of NJ1 should rise up and have a civil war over this transparent, blatant and apparently unrepentant effort to discount their votes and subvert the democratic process. This is perfectly legal, but it's incredibly unprogressive.

What is most shocking to me is just how blasé he is about the fact that he not only created this mess, but had a hand in finding this massively undemocratic solution that disenfranchises the voters.  And at the same time his campaign is yelling that Lautenberg is the one subverting democracy by not doing a retail campaign and using surrogates.

Q: Why did your wife not just agree to serve?  She's running, why wouldn?t she just agree to serve?

A: Because in a two day period it was not fair or possible to fairly consider all the applications of the people who wanted to serve and there's a bunch of really qualified people.  Dana Redd, Steve Sweeney, John Burzichelli (sp?), Lou Capelli (sp?).  Lots or really good people.  

Q: They could have all filed.

A: Well, I'll tell you what we didn't want to have happen there.  It's not in the interest of the Democratic Party to have some big civil war over the Congressional seat at a time when we are trying to have a unified effort in the south.  And why her?  I'll tell you why her.  Because she gave her word that she would abide by the county committee process and she'll keep it and not fall in love with the idea that she maybe won the primary and then not get off the ballot.

Q: So you don't see any problem with how a representative for your seat will be chosen?

A: There is a process.

Q: You don't have any problem with that?

A: No I don't have any problem with that, because the alternative would have been, given my late entry into this race which is something that I will explain why that was, given my late entry into this race there would have been a handful of people who put someone on the party line and no competition whatsoever.  Instead what will happen is that 600 county committee people in the first Congressional district will have a chance to vote on who that replacement should be.

Apologies for any typos or small inaccuracies.  This is a rush transcript.  Anyone who wants to clean it up, just put the corrections in the comments.

huntsu :: Andrews Prevents a "Civil War"
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Rob the Hypocrite (4.00 / 2)
Apparently, it's okay to start a "civil war" in the senate race, but not in his backyard.

Primary is not a civil war (4.00 / 1)
I don't think Rob created a civil war in the state by primarying Lautenberg.  He had every right to put his name up for the spot.

But the way he did it and the timing of it created the potential for civil war in his own turf, and his solution was to take the decision away from the public.  Essentially he stopped the civil war by taking everyone's weapon -- their vote -- away.

Once the voters had no vote, there was no point for the warlords to fight anymore.


[ Parent ]
You're Both Right... (4.00 / 1)
Andrews is a Hypocrite and a primary need not be a "civil war".

Using his wife as a placeholder was/is a way of obstructing democracy.

The agreement/commitment Andrews entered into with the whole Democratic delegation was a reasonable and fair way to avoid a potentially bloody conflict between a number of parties who might have otherwise all run against Lautenberg and each other.

That was legitimate and sensible (though, as I've said before) they should have made a public announcement of unity at the time to truly "seal the deal".   That would not have precluded anyone else from running in the Democratic senatorial primary.

What Andrews/Norcross did here was exactly what some Andrews supporters are (incorrectly) accusing Lautenberg of.

This is clear absolute indisputable blatant self serving hypocrisy on the part of Rob Andrews' campaign.

Unfortunately, many Democrats (especially older primary voters) tend to vote "the party line" unthinkingly as a gesture of party loyalty.

We need open primaries with no preferential "lines".  People should be motivated to actually get to know the candidates and to vote on them as individuals.

It's so ironic that Andrews opponent on Tuesday will get the benefit of the "party line" factor that real progressives would eliminate if we could...and will eliminate when we can.

If Andrews had just kept his word, or refused to give it; all of this counterproductive nonsense could have been avoided.

Meanwhile, we have the phenomena of some pro-Andrews folk adopting the same quasi worshipful attitude toward him that our friend "Terry Malloy" has towards Chris Christie.

Lautenberg will win on Tuesday.   The only real question is how much damage Andrews' run will have done to party unity.

What a shame.


[ Parent ]
The power of the line (4.00 / 4)
It's always stunning to hear how powerful "the party line" is considered in New Jersey - in this case producing "no competition whatsoever." Wow - if ever there was proof that endorsements don't belong on the ballot.  But, I digress.

Not a Digression; a Cogent Point! Thanks! n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
In defense of the line (0.00 / 0)
There is a case to be made that people vote on ballot placement. Say there are 5 candidates for Senator and 2 candidates for Representative - should they be mixed and matched at will, especially when some slates are organized? I'd say no, that it makes sense to be bracketed.

What do you think about bracketing by party in the general election?


[ Parent ]
My real question (4.00 / 4)
about this whole NJ-1 mess is (assuming Camille Andrews does win her three-way primary), whether the bunch of really good qualified people Rob refers to will really be allowed to compete for the votes of the 600 county committee people.

Or, will a decidedly smaller number of person(s) "clear the field" for a preferred candidate to be presented to the 600, and thereby effectively choose the next member of Congress from NJ-1.


"unified effort in the south" (4.00 / 2)
Does he mean his  challenge to Lautenberg, or the budget cuts battle, or just generically?


I have to think of a witty signature about Frank LoBiondo

Slow Down a little (2.00 / 1)
The voters in the District have the ability to vote against Andrew's wife. They are not stupid. If they are not happy with the way it is playing out simply vote for someone else.

The voters in the District also have the ability to vote against a Democratic replacement candidate in the fall.

In either case the voters have been given a choice.

Lautneberg on the other hand has fought the idea of giving the voters a choice. He thinks that Andrews should not have run at all. He wanted a coronation instead of an election.

It was ok when Lautenberg jumped into Torreccelli's  spot as a replacement candidate. Was that ethical or proper?

NJ1 voters have a say. They have a choice. They will have two chances to voice their opinion.

 


No, they don't (4.00 / 4)
That's a rationalization.  The voters are being asked to cast a ballot for a person who is going to resign that position if she wins.  

She was put on the ballot solely due to her promise to resign the nomination if she wins.

The party bosses put her on the ballot and gave her the party line without getting a vote of the county committee in order to prevent other people from joining the fray, in order to prevent a "civil war."

The only way the voters would be given a choice would be if all the people who want the nomination were on the ballot, but this action prevented that.

And if you believe that the voters know a vote for Camille is a vote for a nominating convention, then ask yourself why no other party candidates put themselves on the ballot.

It's because the knew that, even on the ballot, they could not beat the line in a fair fight.    


[ Parent ]
And in 2002 ... (4.00 / 1)
The voters knew that a vote for Lautenberg was a vote for Lautenberg.  

The voters don't know who will get the nomination when they go to the polls on Tuesday.


[ Parent ]
Excuse my ignorance, but... (0.00 / 0)
So hypothetically, let's say Camille wasn't running.  And it had been an open free-for-all in the final week.  For right or wrong, Norcross would have had to choose someone to be put on the line.  So say, Sweeney does the best job sucking up in the final few days.  Isn't that worse than the situation we have now?  By the very fact we have party lines in NJ, theres never a truly fair open primary, so isn't this method the most fair?  Rather than 1 or 2 people picking Sweeney (or Redd or whoever), we're getting 600 local, active individuals to vote on the nominee.

It's not perfect, or even good.  But isn't it better than a 3 day campaign to see who could have earned the line?


See above (0.00 / 0)
I think what you're saying relies on the notion that 600 people will later have a say, and I'm not sure we can accept that premise.

[ Parent ]
A fair point (0.00 / 0)
Certainly a fair point, that it won't be 600 but rather 3-4.  I'm not saying this way is "right" but just trying to view it from every angle.  At least this way there's a chance it's 600, where if she wasn't running it would have been an audience of one.

Now, could the line be open for a Congressional race but not for a Senate Race (obviously, they wanted Andrews to have it for the Senate Race)?   I really don't know.


[ Parent ]
But ... (0.00 / 0)
Norcross could have also decided not to assign the line and let this be an open process for everyone.

In some counties the committee gets to hand out the line.

In others, like Morris GOP, there is no line.

But the County Committee will largely do what they are told by the party leadership when the time comes, anyway.  This was just a way for the party to move the squabling away from the public eye and not impact any local primary elections.


[ Parent ]
no (0.00 / 0)
We shouldn't assume that in a ten candidate free-for-all that the candidate with the party line is going to beat the other nine candidates.

Very often, when there is a party line and an extraneous insurgent candidate running off the line, voters won't even notice the insurgent.

However, if there was a ten candidate free-for-all in CD1, I think that it is very likely that the race will attract enough exposure so that most voters will be going to the polls with some idea about who they are supporting.

Also, at least one of the candidates would have the benefit of running on the same line as Frank Lautenberg, which would probably help to some degree.  Does anybody know which of the two Congressional candidates not named Lautenberg is on Frank's line?

Why is our resident good government progressive from South Jersey, Jay Lassiter, not weighing in on this clearly antidemocratic and antiprogressive situation?

I wonder if a good government progressive would have a better chance of being elected to Congress in CD1 if he/she ran as a Republican?  It worked for Mike Bloomberg.


[ Parent ]
what is the replacement process? (0.00 / 0)
How is the date and location selected?

And will it be scheduled for July 4 to suppress turnout?

Do these ~600 meet in groups in Burlington, Camden, Gloucester and Salem counties or get together in one room at one time? ?

Do these ~600 have a chance to nominate someone other than Norcross' selection?

I ask because I'm confident some of these ~600 read this board.  


No date and location yet (0.00 / 0)
There has to be a resignation to se the date and location.

The groups meet at one time in NJ1, all together.

I believe anyone can be nominated, but I am not sure


[ Parent ]
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